Eyes on Impact: Art of People-First Leadership | AVI Systems

00:00:06:12 - 00:00:31:12
Brad Sousa
Hey, everyone. Brad Sousa here, CTO at AVI Systems. And welcome to Eyes on Impact, the podcast series that focuses on human impact. That amazing place where technology and people meet. And today here on Ice on Impact, my friend David Hotchkiss is joining us. He's the CEO of the Medical College of Wisconsin, the first medical school in the state and still one of the largest research institutes in the region.

00:00:31:14 - 00:00:52:07
Brad Sousa
Now, before we get into our conversation, I want to give you a little bit of a setup. You ready for this? See, I believe that what we do as a direct impact to our customers ability to accomplish their goals. You heard it. If you if you've known me more than 30 seconds, do you know that I'm absolutely passionate about the way that we do this?

00:00:52:08 - 00:01:14:17
Brad Sousa
AB You see digital media thing, the way that I.T. and media come together. I absolutely love it. Now, not everybody I get it sees it the same way that I do. I understand there's a lot of people who look at it and think it's the same as plumbing or heating. It's a utility that you have to provide your workforce if you're going to support them.

00:01:14:19 - 00:01:38:07
Brad Sousa
But I don't believe that. I absolutely, Don. I believe that what we do has true impact to our customers ability to accomplish their mission. Why do I believe that? Well, it's because our customers say it's true. They say some crazy things to us. They tell us that we're part of their trade secret. They tell us that we're a strategic element of their go to market strategy.

00:01:38:09 - 00:01:59:25
Brad Sousa
Healthcare care providers tell us that it's changed the way that they provide care to their patients. Colleges and universities tell us that it's leveled up the way that students learn and teachers teach. Corporations tell us that it's changed the demographics of their workforce. It's shortened the mean time market. It's enabled them to build consensus around a global initiative.

00:01:59:28 - 00:02:27:05
Brad Sousa
This doesn't sound like a utility to me. It sounds like the ability to transform the organization something that really has got some human impact to it. So I've got a provocative question for you. Do you believe. Do you believe that your organization can accomplish its mission if you don't do what you do? Wow. Let's think about it a little bit differently.

00:02:27:08 - 00:02:51:27
Brad Sousa
If you don't deliver with excellence. Can your organization accomplish its goals? Now, before you answer that question, I want you to join David and I in on this conversation because we're going to talk about what it takes to make I.T. a business enabler, not just a utility. We'll talk about what it means to truly be a business leader and be in the I.T. space.

00:02:51:29 - 00:03:10:14
Brad Sousa
And you know what? We'll even even get into a little bit of career planning for all of us who want a level up level of our career path. So what do you say? You're ready to get into it? This is Eyes on impact. Let's get after it.

00:03:10:17 - 00:03:36:23
Brad Sousa
Well, buddy, it's always good hanging out with you. And I have been looking forward to this time together since we first talked about doing a podcast series. I knew you were one of the first people I wanted to get on the series with us. It's always enlightening and entertaining when we get together. I imagine here in about 3 seconds we're going to forget the camera's on and we're just going to do what we normally do.

00:03:36:23 - 00:03:54:25
Brad Sousa
And that to me is goodness. I know you, many of our listeners probably don't. So how about we start with that? Give us a little bit a background to David Hotchkiss and MTW and I guess a little familiar.

00:03:54:28 - 00:04:20:09
David Hotchkiss
Sure. I'm so this this may sound odd because I'm on a I'm on a call with you, but I started out as an accountant and I figured because I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up. So in I was I was that kind of average student, whatever. And so I figured if you could if you could sort of money made the world go around and if you could count it as an accountant, that's a pretty good job.

00:04:20:12 - 00:04:47:23
David Hotchkiss
And I did that for like 14 months in my first job was in health care. And I realized, oh, no, I mean, no disparagement to accountants, but that's not me. I can't I can't do that every month. It's the same thing. So I ended up kind of following a very meandering path through managed care, just health care, all different aspects of it, and found myself, thanks to a mentor, informal mentor, a couple of them, but one primary who said, you know, you you seem like you have a knack for it.

00:04:47:25 - 00:05:06:27
David Hotchkiss
And so why don't you go give that a So I have no actual formal training. None, none whatsoever. I just sort of worked hard, did my thing, but was in the right place, right time with great people who looked after me and worked with great people. That ultimately got me to you today. And it's a it's a it's just an interesting journey.

00:05:06:27 - 00:05:30:13
David Hotchkiss
Maybe we'll go into some of it. But one of the things that I like the most is when people say, you know, I know this just happened the other day with somebody that I was talking to. They said, you're just not you're not the typical person we expect to talk to. So when we pick up the phone and you're you know, whether you're the CIO, whatever titles or titles, we just expect a different kind of person and you're just not that guy.

00:05:30:13 - 00:06:00:01
David Hotchkiss
And I mean, I've taken that as sort of a true a true humbling compliment throughout my entire career. MSW is I have been fortunate to work here for the Medical College of Wisconsin for now. I'm in my 11th year and it is an amazing private freestanding university in the Milwaukee area. We are roughly a $1.5 billion corporation. We do clinical care, as you would imagine, the academic space.

00:06:00:02 - 00:06:21:20
David Hotchkiss
We also do the primary areas of teaching research and a lot in the community space, which maybe we'll get into a little bit today. You never know. I know that passion of yours, our own. And I've just been leading this this truly incredible team now for 11 years, and we have accomplished great things together. We see the field pretty well.

00:06:21:25 - 00:06:45:00
David Hotchkiss
And I think we we make a difference to those we serve. And so that's kind of me in a nutshell. Husband, father, three girls, 21, 20 and 14. All different. And I, I just hope one of them is willing to take care of me when I, when I reach that. If I reach that ripe old age of needing.

00:06:45:04 - 00:06:46:12
David Hotchkiss
So.

00:06:46:14 - 00:07:02:14
Brad Sousa
Yeah, well, you know, it's funny you say that recently I was having a conversation with some of my kids and my daughter in law said to me, Hey, dad, you don't have to worry because we're going to put you in the best time your money can buy.

00:07:02:16 - 00:07:06:23
David Hotchkiss
And I could see it delivered so deadpan to you. Right here is I mean, they're.

00:07:06:25 - 00:07:07:13
Brad Sousa
Completely.

00:07:07:13 - 00:07:09:29
David Hotchkiss
And when they say money can buy your money can buy.

00:07:10:01 - 00:07:29:07
Brad Sousa
Your money can buy, don't worry about it that you got your cover. We got to a lot of the journey that you had. You mentioned a couple of mentors. Are there moments, maybe key decisions that kind of shaped your perspective as a CIO?

00:07:29:10 - 00:07:50:02
David Hotchkiss
Yeah. So, you know, I think there's there's many I'm sure when I so I answered a cold call that was meant for a whole nother aspect of the health care organization I was working for in San Antonio. They meant to get the big hospital. They got this little spin off of the hospital and they got me a one man t shop, and I ended up at the Cleveland Clinic.

00:07:50:07 - 00:08:12:07
David Hotchkiss
And the the gentleman I was working for at the time, his name is Tim Thompson. He's down in Florida. He's phenomenal. I remember I was working on a managed care system. That's what I was brought up for. And I'd never run a system. I never managed anyone. And we were about five months into this thing and I realized that no one wanted it.

00:08:12:09 - 00:08:37:05
David Hotchkiss
I mean, it was it was sort of on the tail end of managed care. Things were generally going a different direction in health care and insurance and so on. And my wife, you know, she she Tricia, she had she had grown up kind of around German family. They had been together their whole tired like generation within like two blocks or I'd give or take and, and I had taken her away to Cleveland.

00:08:37:07 - 00:08:40:13
David Hotchkiss
I mean all the way from San Antonio. That's a that's a pretty hefty draw.

00:08:40:15 - 00:08:41:06
Brad Sousa
Wow. Yeah.

00:08:41:06 - 00:08:59:20
David Hotchkiss
And so she's crying like every day for six months. And I go to him, Tim and I said, Tim, I don't I don't I don't know if this is working, man. Nobody wants what you brought me up for. Nobody. And Trish was crying all the time, were generally miserable. I don't think I should buy a house. I mean, I just don't think this is the place for us.

00:08:59:20 - 00:09:16:08
David Hotchkiss
And he said, Look, I can't tell you whether you should buy a house. That's kind of your decision. But I can tell you that I see something in you that you could be bigger. So I want you not don't worry about the managed care thing. It'll fix itself. I want you to run our loss and implementation. So this is back in the in the nineties.

00:09:16:10 - 00:09:26:06
David Hotchkiss
And, you know, ERP is enterprise resource planning systems. They're big, they're expensive, they're on prem. This is painful and huge. Right back in Lawson's heyday.

00:09:26:08 - 00:09:26:20
Brad Sousa
Yeah.

00:09:26:25 - 00:09:51:09
David Hotchkiss
And he said, I want you to replace Ernst and Young and, you know, their whole PMO office. I just want it hit mine. Remember? I've never done any like any of it. I don't even know what acronyms to like SLA. I don't know what that. And in their exit interview they said ERSTEN Young said, You've got an unproven guy coming in.

00:09:51:14 - 00:10:13:12
David Hotchkiss
There's no way your project is destined for failure with this guy. And I would've written the same letter, quite honestly, if I was. Then we brought it home again. Great team. I made a lot of mistakes, but I did some things well. We brought it home on time under budget, and the rest was kind of history. And if he doesn't see that kind of side of me, if he doesn't see.

00:10:13:14 - 00:10:14:07
Brad Sousa
Oh yeah.

00:10:14:07 - 00:10:28:20
David Hotchkiss
Ability to do it, it's a turning point. I mean, I could have laughed and who knows, I might have bounced right out of it. And instead that cemented sort of my path going forward. And there's a few other moments that we could share. But I don't I don't want to just go on.

00:10:28:23 - 00:10:58:06
Brad Sousa
Well, you know, it's interesting, as I've had the privilege of working with you, I've had the privilege of watching you with your team. I've I've had the fun of sharing the stage with you and doing events together. And it's been an absolute blast. There's a lot of ways that I would describe you, but one of the ways I would describe you is that you're a leader first and a technologist, maybe second or third.

00:10:58:08 - 00:11:03:09
Brad Sousa
It's somewhere that is. Is that kind of close? Would you describe yourself that way?

00:11:03:11 - 00:11:22:15
David Hotchkiss
I think it's great that you see me that way. I hope others do. I mean, it's just oh, I kind of wish to to present and it's kind of go back to what I talked about earlier. Right. So people don't see me as the typical individual in a car seat. Right. And and I do understand tech, right? I didn't I could go back again.

00:11:22:16 - 00:11:46:28
David Hotchkiss
Trained accountant. Full disclosure, I've never coded a thing. And in fact the one project I try to code in college, it didn't work. I handed it in. It gave me an A Anyways. So, you know, there's a lot of moments that really got me to where I am today, and that's one of them. The the reason for all of that is if you if you don't value people based on how they present.

00:11:47:00 - 00:11:47:06
Brad Sousa
Their.

00:11:47:06 - 00:11:57:18
David Hotchkiss
Skills, their attributes, the buttons that work for them, or maybe don't work for them, if you don't if you don't think about that, it's not that I'm perfect because there's not a leader on the planet that's perfect.

00:11:57:18 - 00:11:59:15
Brad Sousa
But sure.

00:11:59:18 - 00:12:19:27
David Hotchkiss
We've got pretty low turnover and in my leadership team we have really no turnover in my in my tenure. I'd like to think it's partly me and it's partly the place we work and serve in medical college in Wisconsin. And so it's just really respecting and treating people as people first. They're not tools, they're not pieces of a machine.

00:12:19:29 - 00:12:37:03
David Hotchkiss
They are simply people that have agreed to do what they do in service to MTW. And together we make some pretty good things happen. And if you don't treat them that way, they could give their skills to anybody. They honestly could. They could probably make more money.

00:12:37:03 - 00:12:39:03
Brad Sousa
So that's so good. Yeah.

00:12:39:06 - 00:12:45:25
David Hotchkiss
And and I'm just glad they choose to be with us. I'm so sorry, Rufus.

00:12:45:27 - 00:12:47:03
Brad Sousa
Yeah. Yeah.

00:12:47:06 - 00:13:10:25
David Hotchkiss
I think that people. I think it's changed, and maybe it's just me, but I don't think so. I think people choose they choose to work for an organization. But very quickly after that, they come to decide whether they're going to work for a person and they, the organization is important. What it does, it's culture. Its mission really important.

00:13:10:25 - 00:13:27:03
David Hotchkiss
And we really we have sort of that secret sauce and NCW, because we do those for missions like I talked about earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they choose to work for a person or not. And so if you're not a leader first, they'll make a decision that you may not like.

00:13:27:06 - 00:14:04:01
Brad Sousa
So I think early in my career I saw the pathway to elevating or promotion or whatever you want to call it. I, I think I saw that pathway was through skillset. So if I knew something that others didn't know, if I mastered a skill that others didn't have, that that would become my, my, you know, next step. But later in my career, I think I've learned that it's not about skill, it's about leadership.

00:14:04:03 - 00:14:10:12
Brad Sousa
Would you I mean, is that resonate with you? Would you say that's true for what what you have seen?

00:14:10:14 - 00:14:31:14
David Hotchkiss
I think so. But if you hadn't mastered the skill early on, you would never have known your way to that leadership role. Right? So, sure. So it's a little chicken and egg. So did you need the leadership skills early on to develop those competencies, those those that expertise and individual skills? Did you need that to get where you are?

00:14:31:14 - 00:14:56:18
David Hotchkiss
I think so. For me, I it's a little more of a I'm not going to say it's a straight line, but the so I'm not going to say I don't know what I mean. What I do is sort of I present, I organize, I facilitate, I influence. I've never had the skills like you did, right? I mean, I didn't I could think logically.

00:14:56:18 - 00:15:16:05
David Hotchkiss
I could work in databases, I could do things right. And I would self-taught. But my skills, I sort of developed that sort of ability to influence one of the one of the the my good friends at the Glenn Clinic who was on the project team and is there to this day in a in a senior role in finance.

00:15:16:08 - 00:15:35:15
David Hotchkiss
I remember him telling me one time we were at one of our our hospitals within the network of the clinic clinic, and we did our kickoff and everything. And he you know, he talked to me after the fact. He said you could you can talk your way out of a paper bag. I mean, you seriously could just and I'm just I've sort of had that ability all the way through.

00:15:35:18 - 00:15:55:04
David Hotchkiss
And it's recognizing it's recognized The people I'm talking to, recognizing what makes them tick. And so I've kind of had those skills all the way through that just sort of grew into leadership for me, right? Maybe I'm just different. Maybe I'm truly a a different bird in that respect.

00:15:55:07 - 00:16:28:03
Brad Sousa
So I would say, you know, some some of the things that I see in the way that you lead that I admire is I'm you're an excellent communicator. You're very empathetic towards people in your amazingly transparent. And I guess one of the things that I that I I'm kind of thinking about here as part of our conversation is that I agree with you that you have to master your skill and duty before you can make a difference.

00:16:28:06 - 00:16:53:18
Brad Sousa
But there comes a point, I think, in people's careers, or at least I wonder, maybe it's not true for you, But I think for me there came a point where where I said, you know, just just getting smarter at what I do isn't going to actually make the difference. It's going to be how I communicate with people, how I lead people, how it becomes that people first thing as opposed to a skillset first thing.

00:16:53:18 - 00:17:05:00
Brad Sousa
And there's a tipping point someplace along the career path where that makes a difference. I see you nodding your head so you must have had some sort of experience like that, at least somewhere.

00:17:05:02 - 00:17:33:03
David Hotchkiss
Yeah. So I mean, so I changed just within my SO, you know, I, I really thought I was really good at doing what I did. Right. And we all think that right. So I was really good at influencing and presenting and, and so, so truth be told, I mean, again, in the in the spirit of transparency, you know, hopefully you don't have more than two listeners think So I was at the same time this role in MSW came up.

00:17:33:03 - 00:17:57:05
David Hotchkiss
I was in the running just before that. I was in the running for the CIO at my former institution, and I was told by the CIO, the CEO at the time, you're the guy and you're going to be at. And so, I mean, I was going in, I was riding a pretty high wave and I went through the interview process and I finished five out of six.

00:17:57:08 - 00:18:16:15
David Hotchkiss
And only because the six person person dropped out. So it was kind of humbling. And I thought, well, they just they just must have got it wrong. And and so then I you know, I decided probably because of ego a little bit, I decided to look elsewhere. And at the same time, I had a couple of off and on offers, but opportunities come my way.

00:18:16:15 - 00:18:36:15
David Hotchkiss
And again, I showed up at CW and they they agreed to their intelligent approach for somebody like me. They agreed to get me a coach. And so I got to interview and hopefully this is too long story. I got to interview the two coaches and the first one I, I interviewed, we laughed and we almost cried. I mean, it was just it was just a great exchange.

00:18:36:17 - 00:18:53:08
David Hotchkiss
And I thought, well, and she had written a book. I mean, how I mean, of course she's my coach. And so I entertained the interview for the next one, just just because out of courtesy. Right. And so I sit through the next one and it's very understated and very low key, and I'm just kind of talking through it.

00:18:53:10 - 00:19:29:22
David Hotchkiss
And at roughly minute 53, it becomes very apparent to me that she is she has sort of led me unknowingly through an entire path of conversation, not manipulated me but one. And I realized that the first one was really fun, but the second one is the one I needed. So all of that to say, wow, I had to I had to sort of reach a new self-awareness on And this may not be evident as I talk too much, but a self-awareness on when I talk, how I talk, what I say, what I think, what I what I make space for others to to do.

00:19:29:23 - 00:19:51:21
David Hotchkiss
Because it became very apparent to me that as good as I thought I was, I actually wasn't all that great. And so I had to change my skills. Back to your question, I really did come full circle. I had to change my skills. I had to adapt to be good at that leadership thing. Otherwise I was just kind of pushing Davon down people's throat.

00:19:51:23 - 00:20:26:28
Brad Sousa
Yeah. How do you how do you do that for your team? How do you help level them? Can you can you give me an example without without disclosing something personal about anybody on your team? Because that's not what I'm looking for. But I you're very adept at this. And I'm curious, can you think of an example where you've you've said, hey, I could I could help this person with a skill, but instead what I'm going to do is help them lead better and develop somebody about that specifically around leadership.

00:20:26:28 - 00:20:28:13
Brad Sousa
How do you do that?

00:20:28:15 - 00:20:47:02
David Hotchkiss
So, I mean, there's formal stuff and it's not it's not sexy, but things like nine boxing and sitting down and having true conversations about where people are excelling, where they could be a little better. It's a little bit of that succession planning that, you know, you think about. And as leaders, you should be considering. So there's that formal stuff.

00:20:47:02 - 00:21:06:27
David Hotchkiss
But it's I think it's the less formal stuff day to day that makes the biggest difference. And so when you have those moments, those small moments of awareness and coaching and you've got good relationship with your people and it's a two way street, they can tell you what they think about maybe what I've done and I can in turn exchange my perspective.

00:21:06:27 - 00:21:32:02
David Hotchkiss
And it's never a criticism. It's this is what I saw. Maybe I saw it wrong and we just threw it. And sometimes sometimes that that sort of informal conversation and feedback, it goes a long way to especially when they when we respect one another, they sort of reflect some of that. And I'm not trying to get nor would I want everyone to be me to be like me.

00:21:32:04 - 00:21:33:20
David Hotchkiss
We'd be a horrible team.

00:21:33:23 - 00:21:34:16
Brad Sousa
Right?

00:21:34:18 - 00:21:56:08
David Hotchkiss
But just because our culture as leaders go, often their teams go right. And so I try to lead by example. They pick up a lot of that and we have a lot of really open, honest conversations about whatever. Sometimes I'll even say there'll be a moment where, you know, I was really upset when this happened. I'll say, you know, so you said this, you did this.

00:21:56:11 - 00:22:16:23
David Hotchkiss
I just want you to know this is my response to it and it isn't. But they take it in a different way. It's not a criticism. It's not like Dad got mad at it. We just talked through it and we usually arrive. Well, we always arrive at a really good place. So I don't know if that totally gets to answer your question, but.

00:22:16:26 - 00:22:40:29
Brad Sousa
I think it does. I mean, there's in my mind, just kind of one more minute or two on this topic. And in my mind, there's a difference between a manager and a leader. You know, if I want somebody to sustain, sustain something that's been built, you you look for a manager. If I want somebody to take a team someplace, they wouldn't go on their own.

00:22:41:04 - 00:22:57:23
Brad Sousa
I have to find a leader. I'm. How do you find those for? First of all, do you have both on your team? And then secondly, how do you how do you put the right person in the right role or how do you find that good leader or develop them?

00:22:57:26 - 00:23:17:27
David Hotchkiss
I think you have to have both to your to your question. I mean, I think you can't have nothing but leaders because what honestly would they be? Is it management? I mean, would we get anything done or would have just a bunch of people be all thinking about stuff all and that doesn't work. But we do have we do have a blend of of all and I'm one of both.

00:23:18:00 - 00:23:41:11
David Hotchkiss
And you sort of hire for culture, right? You hire a little bit for expertise, but those interviews matter a lot. And I probably shouldn't say that's the worst interview technique for me personally is when I'm given a script of questions and I have to stick to them. I don't I hate it. I hate it because I still kind of get to know who Brad is in that context.

00:23:41:11 - 00:24:01:07
David Hotchkiss
But I don't I don't get to have a conversation. I don't you know, I don't do the typical give me one time that you failed and how you turn it off. I mean, I don't that doesn't matter to me how you present as a as a person is almost more important because how you fit into the culture is ultimately how you're going to succeed or not succeed with us right?

00:24:01:09 - 00:24:37:20
David Hotchkiss
I mean, parts matter how you fit together, a team, a chess board or whatever, it matters. So we're pretty good at hiring. I think even now in this sort of difficult post, I say post-pandemic time. We're pretty good at finding talent but wants to be with us. That will be a good fit. And I don't know if this is directly related, but in terms of the leader versus manager, I think that there's there's sort of a formal leadership style and then there's in very informal environments.

00:24:37:20 - 00:25:04:19
David Hotchkiss
And when I say that, I mean a leader can force anyone ultimately to follow to do something, but it's only in their sort of not passive approach, but it's only by how they choose to lead, how they can choose, how they choose to embrace that team, their team that people will choose to follow them. And that's what that's what you want as a leader.

00:25:04:19 - 00:25:27:01
David Hotchkiss
You want a group of people that see in you as a leader, whoever their leader, it, that you're going in a direction they want to be a part of. They want to be a part of that team. They want to be a part of that future. You didn't tell them to do it. They chose to do it. You will get a different level of commitment, retention, outcome from that team every time.

00:25:27:03 - 00:26:00:20
Brad Sousa
Yeah, you know, that's great point because I when I talk to people and they asked me about leadership, one of the things I tell them is that the the first thing about becoming a good leader is discovering what you need to be to create good followers because you can't actually be a leader without a follower. Right? And if you can't create people, if you can't develop relationships, that people want to follow, it doesn't matter what you, you will never be a good leader.

00:26:00:22 - 00:26:39:28
Brad Sousa
And I see that in your team and I see that in the way that you operate. It's it's very cool to watch. I'm going to go to this people first thing and take it to a different direction and that that's really around this idea. I'm that that when you when you engineer or design or use technology as a solution, if you don't start with people, then you you can deliver something that matches the spec, but it doesn't mean it's actually going to accomplish the outcome.

00:26:40:00 - 00:27:08:21
Brad Sousa
Right? You recently spoke at our national sales meeting and I'm I'm not flattering. This is a true statement. You know me well. I people still talk about your keynote and just in case you think I'm joking, it happened yesterday. Somebody quoted you in the thing that they were talking about was this idea, and I'm going to butcher it, so forgive me, but one of the things that you talked about was, hey, don't sell me anything.

00:27:08:21 - 00:27:22:04
Brad Sousa
Solve a problem for me, because every good technology deployment starts with solving a real problem. And it's focused on how people engage with it.

00:27:22:07 - 00:27:40:01
Brad Sousa
Our our language wrong. That's human impact. That's the term we use. But I've watched you this. This has worked well for you. Can you can you elaborate on that? Explain that. I mean, how does this work for you people? First, in terms of engineering and design.

00:27:40:03 - 00:28:08:14
David Hotchkiss
You leave it alone. It's kind of easy on it. What you have to step back from, there's a core set of things you have to do is an I.T. team is somebody that provides technology services to a group. You know, emails got to work, phones got to work, stuff's got to work, right? Oh, I mean, I think somebody said something like that just works things just and that becomes sort of the that becomes the new bar sort of every day that people expect from things must just work.

00:28:08:17 - 00:28:37:26
David Hotchkiss
And you don't necessarily get attaboys for dial tone, you don't get attaboys for email coming in, you don't get attaboys for the power of the outlet. You get attaboys. Not that we work for that, but by designing services that help people do whatever it is. Their training, skill, expertise is better. You don't get in their way. You enable them to do the very thing they're good at in service to the people that need it the most in our world.

00:28:37:29 - 00:29:04:25
David Hotchkiss
I mean, people are coming for care. You know, these often these are not just well visits. These could be across the whole spectrum of of health care. And people go through some pretty serious things every day. And if it gets in their way, all of a sudden now we're in a place we shouldn't be. We're in between. Because you talked about relationships were in between a relationship that honestly, we have no business being in.

00:29:04:28 - 00:29:19:11
David Hotchkiss
And so the question is, how do you build services that reflect the needs of those that use them without being overly directive in what you put out there?

00:29:19:13 - 00:29:39:25
Brad Sousa
Wait a minute. Wait, wait. I want to I want to go back to something I think I just heard you say. What I think you just said was when it doesn't do what it is supposed to do it the way that it should be doing it, you get in between a relationship and I think the relationship you're inferring was the relationship between the doctor and the patient is it.

00:29:39:27 - 00:30:08:04
David Hotchkiss
Could be could be the educator in the student, could be the community, the community facing element of our operation. And the least the last in the lost of those were trying to help in our region. Any time we're in the middle and we slow things down or we create a hurdle or an obstacle in it, we're pretty good at doing those things and creating obstacles and, you know, just just hurdles to jump over.

00:30:08:07 - 00:30:19:27
David Hotchkiss
We lessen at least the speed of impact, if not the impact itself on those that are in that relationship between two parties that we're not a party to, if that makes sense.

00:30:19:29 - 00:30:45:10
Brad Sousa
Hard, brilliantly said. I mean, one of the things that you talk about, I talk about I think this is a shared affinity between us, is that I'm an absolute believer that what we do is a business enabler. It's not a utility. It's in. And no disrespect to those people, to people who provide a utility, but that's not that's not who we are.

00:30:45:11 - 00:31:11:12
Brad Sousa
That might have been the way that that business leaders thought about us maybe pre-pandemic. But the pandemic absolutely solidified the fact that we're mission critical business enablement, business continuity, all of those things. How do you communicate that? I mean, you obviously agrees. What does that first of all, what does that look like for you? And secondly, how do you communicate that to your team?

00:31:11:15 - 00:31:35:23
David Hotchkiss
I think you've seen a lot of you've seen a lot of shift in i.t. Viewed as a as a commodity, a utility, a necessary evil to just running an organization. I think things have changed and now more and more companies, mtw included, is viewing it as a enabler, a strategic asset in many ways they're still the operational day to day commodity kind of things.

00:31:35:26 - 00:32:01:28
David Hotchkiss
But when you rise above that line, when you think differently and bigger, you realize that it can actually be it could be a differentiator in how a given organization, certainly MTW can function and does function to the betterment of its of its of its abilities succeeding in a current environment that's very different than an environment of yesterday, just putting a very broad spin on it.

00:32:02:01 - 00:32:23:19
David Hotchkiss
How do we communicate it? I mean, within my own team we talk about I connect mission often. So again, we're not selling widgets, we're not in retail, we're not in travel, we're not in. We actually impact the very lives I talked about earlier and we impact people that are serving people at their highest moments and potentially their lowest moments.

00:32:23:21 - 00:32:49:23
David Hotchkiss
And we get to be a part of that. You don't get to do that night just anywhere. So we get to be as close to that front facing relationship. Ideally, without getting in the middle of it. We get to be as close to enabling them to do incredible mission driven heartstring kind of connection work. We get to be a part of that, which then drives strategy, which then drives engagement, which drives all of these things.

00:32:49:26 - 00:32:58:01
David Hotchkiss
We get to think differently and bigger because we're a part of something that is truly bigger than ourselves.

00:32:58:04 - 00:33:19:09
Brad Sousa
Dude, I want to I want to park on this for just a little bit because this is so critical to, I think, your success. I mean, it's core to our DNA. I was speaking at a conference last week and delivering a keynote, and at the end I one of those rare opportunities where there enough time for questions and answers at the end.

00:33:19:09 - 00:33:43:08
Brad Sousa
And one of the guys in the office, a senior i.t. Leader at his organization, said to me, you know, i hear what you're saying, but the challenge for me is I don't get a seat at the table. I'm always the it seems to always be the last guy. Everybody talks to and I don't know how to do what you're, what you're recommending we do.

00:33:43:08 - 00:34:07:09
Brad Sousa
And when I don't even get invited to the conversation and my response to him was, the problem isn't you're not getting invited. The problem is you haven't demonstrated that you're a critical business enabler. And if people saw you as the answer to how to get to where they're going, there would be no shortage of opportunity for you. That's the way I handled the conversation.

00:34:07:10 - 00:34:15:12
Brad Sousa
How do you handle your team? Because what you talk about is absolutely integrated in your team's DNA.

00:34:15:14 - 00:34:44:08
David Hotchkiss
It is. And first, my first reaction is you probably have one less Twitter follower now ready maybe, but you're not you're not wrong, aren't you? Sometimes it's not that people don't. The leadership of your organization doesn't. It's not that they don't recognize the capabilities of I.T. Sometimes they're just so focused on other areas in a way they kind of forget about it.

00:34:44:16 - 00:35:16:15
David Hotchkiss
If you do things really well. And i think we talked about this previously. Yeah. If you do things really well, you become invisible. And the problem of becoming invisible is you become irrelevant. So maybe, maybe the opposite is true for this individual in the audience. They're actually they could be doing things really well, but it's so good that it's an area that just gets lost in the wash of day to day and the pressures of the pressures of the business environment, the revenue top line, whatever on the CEO and those that are that are working on those things.

00:35:16:18 - 00:35:37:17
David Hotchkiss
And suddenly it is just, well, let's just get it done. They'll just it'll all just work out and they don't think about it in reverse. There's a reason they get it done. There's a reason the organization can do what it does. The reason that it's invisible to me as a leader. And so it's not easy. It really isn't easy.

00:35:37:17 - 00:35:58:24
David Hotchkiss
And I've switched my thought. I've told you this, I've switched my thought. It's no longer the goal, it's no longer be invisible. For all of the reasons I just shared it, it's instead being visible for the right reasons. And and I've worked I've worked pretty hard. And we haven't always been with a seat at the table. We've not always had a seat at the table.

00:35:59:01 - 00:36:17:01
David Hotchkiss
And for the most part, that was okay because we could still do what we wanted to do and needed to do both on those below the line, operational things and those above the line strategic things. We made a lot of good decisions collectively, and we did it again with the people in mind and we did it the right way.

00:36:17:01 - 00:36:38:19
David Hotchkiss
We didn't just do it on our own. In many cases. But but even even within the last two weeks, there was this one group that is that is working on the strategic aspects of our research mission. And it was in a meeting, I looked at it and I saw the list of people that are on this, this really important work group for us for as an institution.

00:36:38:21 - 00:37:03:07
David Hotchkiss
And we're not there and I said, okay, So I you know, again, you've got relationships, you influence, you do what you can. I reached out to one of our senior leaders and said, Don't you think there would be benefit because I do that we would be there because we're driving a big piece of what they're doing today and what research is going to depend upon and demand in the future.

00:37:03:09 - 00:37:25:11
David Hotchkiss
And they said, Oh my gosh, by all means you should be there. And so sometimes you just have to kind of remind people because they're busy doing whatever it is they do. They're not necessarily thinking about how it might help them, as we always have. So why we need to be at the table and maybe I'm spinning it for my own restful, which means, I don't know.

00:37:25:14 - 00:37:56:20
Brad Sousa
I look and I think it's good. I think what you're saying is good. I think I think it also there's an element of truly believing that what you're doing makes a difference. It matters to people. I think that's part of it because when when other stakeholders in your organization see that you're passionate about making that connection and moving forward a common mission, I think they invite you along the way.

00:37:56:22 - 00:38:06:11
Brad Sousa
Do you think that part of the reason maybe if a leader's not getting a seat at the table is that they just don't have a common language with business leaders?

00:38:06:18 - 00:38:35:13
David Hotchkiss
Oh, very much so. Yeah. And so again, kind of going all the way back and not trying to to mine her. But the reason people see me differently is because I don't use our own language. I'm sort of I'm sort of that that un translator, if you will, between people that speak very different at times than the i.t people I teach people one very they love structure, they want structure, they talk in acronyms, they talk in equipment and requirements and all this fun stuff.

00:38:35:13 - 00:39:06:01
David Hotchkiss
Right. Which is all important to me. What they're asking for, what they're trying to get across to this other party from across the pond is, is, is what they need to help the businesspeople, The business people are saying, I really don't care how it happens. If you get from today to this end state that I've described and I'm sure I didn't give you all the details, but because I don't know all the details, I just know that this is the future I want.

00:39:06:03 - 00:39:23:07
David Hotchkiss
How we get there has to be somebody in the middle or you just project management them to death. And if you get somewhere, but you may not get exactly where either party to this project, this process, this idea wanted to get.

00:39:23:09 - 00:39:48:27
Brad Sousa
So if you imagined what your team look like two or three years from now, how would they how would that team and I talk about individuals, I'm just talking about mindsets or, you know, outcomes or whatever, but how would you describe two or three years from now they might be a little different than what they are today?

00:39:49:00 - 00:39:52:20
David Hotchkiss
Well, I have to be careful because if they choose to listen to this, I don't.

00:39:52:23 - 00:39:59:11
Brad Sousa
Well, listen, I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking about I'm talking about the culture, the DNA of your team.

00:39:59:13 - 00:40:18:20
David Hotchkiss
Well, the reason I say that is because the first thought that comes to mind is often when somebody asks us of something or we see a trend in the world in our space, our first reaction is, well, how is it going to impact us? How's it going impact us? Do we have the resources? Is it in line with our vision?

00:40:18:26 - 00:40:44:13
David Hotchkiss
Is it what we want to do? Technology really? Is it part of our architecture and and plans? So oftentimes it's not. And so I'll take I'll take I had the most hyped topic of our day at present, but I think this one's going to stick. I really do. Oh, the first reaction is, well, it's not secure. Nobody knows what it's going to do.

00:40:44:13 - 00:41:22:26
David Hotchkiss
I was just so not rambling. I was just talking to my boss and I was meeting with prior to meeting with him, I was meeting with over the past couple of weeks, I've been meeting with some faculty and MTW and we were talking about these these large language models and what their capabilities might be. And you see all these other academic medical centers that are starting to play with it epic as a as a book, the leading medical record across most of health care in the US and beyond is already playing with it and figuring out how they can make the lives of physicians and nurses and other caregivers better in a just a pile

00:41:22:26 - 00:41:47:18
David Hotchkiss
of information that is often hard to to to sift through and we started with what we should have a policy. We should have a policy around what we do. And in AI and in a very astute faculty member said, we don't have a policy around how we do Google searches. I mean, with what we don't we don't regulate tech at that level in that specificity.

00:41:47:18 - 00:42:04:21
David Hotchkiss
And so he said, why don't we approach it differently with a little more open mind? And so we're going to do a work you've been so I was talking to my and to look forward to look for use cases that we can rapidly prototype and see if we can make a difference. Right. And and likely those are going to be internal models that run with our institution, which is what you see in other places.

00:42:04:21 - 00:42:27:06
David Hotchkiss
But I was talking to my boss and I said, this is where it's different. This is where I'm going to be the hypocrite, right? So now I'm I t I've heard people, they want us to explore it, but now I'm going to have a tech that is chasing a problem. It's the first time I've ever, ever, ever brought in technology without without a specific thing.

00:42:27:06 - 00:42:46:23
David Hotchkiss
I'm trying to to deal with because it's so early, we don't know what it's going to do. I my boss says, So what are you going to try to fix? I said, I don't I don't know what I'm going to fix, but I guarantee you there there there are applications of this technology today and in its future that are going to make us different.

00:42:46:23 - 00:43:05:28
David Hotchkiss
And if we don't embrace, if we don't think differently back to our mindset as a culture, both each and the future of our team, years from now, we will become irrelevant for different reasons, not necessarily because we did a good job, but because we didn't embrace something that others are in.

00:43:05:28 - 00:43:16:21
Brad Sousa
Matt Yeah, so can we spend another minute or two on air? Because interestingly enough, it was it was the topic that I spoke at at the conference as well.

00:43:16:21 - 00:43:22:02
David Hotchkiss
And I mean, as you said, this is your show, so we can spend as many minutes as you like. Oh, well.

00:43:22:04 - 00:43:47:16
Brad Sousa
Let's wait a toss up back at me. I love that. So, so in this case, what I think I heard you talk about was the fact that you're going to you're going to just prototype it and model it. And it's it's not designed for a specific end. It's a it's it's consume to learn and then allow those experiences to define a you know, how to how to make it not productive.

00:43:47:18 - 00:43:49:09
Brad Sousa
Is that what you're doing?

00:43:49:11 - 00:44:24:06
David Hotchkiss
Yeah. So the goal is and I'll meet with our faculty leadership Committee on Monday morning early and we'll we'll we'll talk about this and we'll start to will gather a very small but strategically minded work group to not think this but identify some very specific things we can use perfected on an and you may be I'm sure you're familiar with it I wasn't until I honestly our faculty educated me in again that's back to never stop learning and I don't know every fact I'm as they often say you'll hear people say I'm not the smartest guy in the room.

00:44:24:09 - 00:44:46:10
David Hotchkiss
I'm glad they don't take IQ tests. In many of these, there are models, hundreds of models that are out out there. Now that you can run internal to your organization, you can run them on. Some people think you have to have these massive computer arrays behind them. You don't really know it's scale. I believe you need them, but it's to work with them, to play with them.

00:44:46:12 - 00:45:13:05
David Hotchkiss
Then I'm up on a virtual machine. I've got somebody that's running the same Berkeley. He's running it or not. I think it's an eight year old Microsoft Surface and it's just cranking away. This is not a microsoft ad. It's just working on a surface. And so when you run them internally, you you know, there's this perception that if you give all your information to and it's real to a public charge, beat or barred or DMA, any of these others, your information goes through something that's not in your control.

00:45:13:05 - 00:45:24:09
David Hotchkiss
But if you run the models internally, you get to adjust the probabilities. You get to train it on a very specific thing. And that's what we're going to do. That's what we like, what others are doing. It just makes sense.

00:45:24:11 - 00:45:55:04
Brad Sousa
I think that's great. I'm a big believer in hyper and and designing for the next phase, not designing for the end result, because today I can't actually predict what the end product is supposed to look like. And, and the things change so rapidly that if I do train design for something that that's that's that. And final end product, if I train design that today, I'm going to miss out on all of the evolution of what that's going to go through in the next, you know, 6 to 12 months.

00:45:55:04 - 00:46:16:16
Brad Sousa
So yeah, I'm a big believer in hyper prototyping. That's what you're doing, it sounds like. I think it's fantastic. And we talked about this because this is, as you imagine what your team looks like over the next couple of years, you're going to you're going to figure out how to integrate this into the culture and the DNA and vision of your team.

00:46:16:16 - 00:46:17:16
Brad Sousa
I think that's great.

00:46:17:19 - 00:46:36:01
David Hotchkiss
You know, one of my leaders often says he uses phrases like this often, but you have to you sort of have to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Right. And this is what and i.t. People are they're not they're not good at bigly, Right? And so I really do like his phrase because it does speak to what I hope back to your question.

00:46:36:03 - 00:47:02:16
David Hotchkiss
I hope in the in the months and years to come, we just get comfortable. Tech has changed a lot and maybe I'm just hyper focused on the the current changes, but it just feels different. I mean, I think cloud's taking on a bigger, a bigger element of our world. We're already hybrid, but we're moving even greater things to bigger, more important Tier one kind of things of our operation out end.

00:47:02:19 - 00:47:19:24
David Hotchkiss
And so when you do that, your skill sets change, your team changes and it it's, it's either a threat to your future or it's an opportunity that could make your future that much better, that much more engaging, that much more fun and impactful. And that's where we have to think about differently in the years to come as a team.

00:47:19:27 - 00:47:52:14
Brad Sousa
Super good. If I'm going to wrap it up with this final question, and that is if it if a younger version of you came to came to you and said, hey, what should I be thinking about to become this people first leader, how would you how would you coach them today, somebody younger that's trying to figure this this road out, How would you coach them on how to get there?

00:47:52:17 - 00:48:25:26
David Hotchkiss
I mean, that's a way to end on a really deep question. As much as you think you know, you know a fraction of that. So don't be so cocky. Don't. And and it's it's rough because you have to be confident to succeed. You have to be confident to be viewed as somebody that can own a and lead it and move it forward In any level of your career, even in your entry role, you have to be confident enough to get that task done.

00:48:25:28 - 00:48:52:05
David Hotchkiss
But if you if you blow past confidence and it's just sort of covered in ego, you'll actually be destructive to your future. And I don't know that I was people first at the beginning. I don't I think I kind of I value people and I recognize their value, but I don't know that I truly value them the way I do now.

00:48:52:05 - 00:49:24:14
David Hotchkiss
And it's so unfortunate because, you know, what we what we knew in our 20 is what we do in our thirties. What I knew is it's part of today. But when I really needed to be successful was what I know now. And unfortunately I think I just made it through my twenties and thirties and got lucky enough to get to this kind of knowledge because so many people can get derailed along the way and never have the opportunity to get to where hopefully you and I are in this space of learning, which is very different.

00:49:24:14 - 00:49:48:19
David Hotchkiss
It's more about giving back or leader h.r. Says, which maybe this sounds wrong. They don't necessarily pay us for what we do anymore. They pay us for what we know and i just don't think my 20 year old 30 year old self do anything i could brute force anything. I could talk my way through anything. I wasn't always right.

00:49:48:21 - 00:49:58:13
David Hotchkiss
I was also at times kind of a jerk. All I don't want to end on the word jerk, but that's what I that's what I would say. That's what.

00:49:58:15 - 00:50:01:12
Brad Sousa
Nobody. We did it. We made a podcast.

00:50:01:14 - 00:50:07:16
David Hotchkiss
And to your credit, I forgot the camera there, just working there. I would just like you said, I would.

00:50:07:19 - 00:50:34:11
Brad Sousa
Worry every time we do this, whether it's just you and I hanging out with a cup of coffee or it's, you know, that's formal like this. I thoroughly enjoy it. You're you're, you're very skilled and gifted at what you do. I love the fact that you love people. You appreciate technology and love people, because that's, I think, how you've really helped transformed the mission of the medical college.

00:50:34:11 - 00:50:36:11
Brad Sousa
Wisconsin. Thank you for giving us your time today.

00:50:36:12 - 00:50:38:01
David Hotchkiss
You're too kind. Thanks for inviting me.